Actually rich people invest that money, which means it works for everyone, not just the person who owns that money. Living in a nation with rich people is good for the entire nation.
No they don't. Logic says that because they are getting richer it can only mean they extract more wealth over time and not put it back in into society.
Bad logic. In reality the money they invest is not gone. It becomes capital. If what they invest in works they get a return. Just keeping it would mean losing money with inflation.
They generate wealth. It's a farmer growing corn and selling it stealing from the guy who buys it? He didnt pay the earth to grow it for him. How can he charge him money?
I said the Capitalists (people who hire others to work for them) are the ones that get wealth which they didn't work for. Work(ers) creating useful things is what creates wealth.
Your logic & logic of pretty much every other pro-capitalist is so flawed you can't see all of the effects capitalism creates, you always only focus on myths of capitalist propaganda
You don't seem to understand that equal distribution of wealth. is only possible through the force of a central power. Freedom and Communism cannot coexist.
Lasty, Communism has nothing about everyone having the same things or same wealth, its only about making everyone to EARN WHAT THEY HAVE FROM THEIR OWN WORK and not from work of others
Profiting from your own work is fine. Working for a company without paying for the company to operate is theft and entitlement. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Thats because communism depends on an invalid idea of value. Communism has the wrong notion that value comes from labour. This is wrong and leads to zero sum systems that force poverty
And what has America been doing for decades and decades? KILLING OTHER PEOPLE, OVERTHROWING OTHER GOVERNMENTS, 1000 MILITARY BASES OUTSIDE US, ITS ALL CALLED CAPITALIST IMPERIALISM!!!
No, some just pretend that is capitalist imperialism to justify their bad ideas. I don't care for it, but I understand the idea of a nation protecting it's interests.
America & UK haven't been protecting their interests, they have been ATTACKING, KILLING, TORTURING & EXPLOITING OTHERS and blaming others for shit they have been doing all this time!
wow, you are calling me a liar when I say that US/UK have been attacking others? If you don't even see this reality why am I talking to you at all. You are still fully in the Matrix.
To pretend they are just evil and killing for fun shows you have no idea what goes on in this world. Yes troops are sent places, yes military bases exist, and are asked for.
And Communism doesn't poverty you idiot, what it does is prevent some greedy fuckers to exploit society. Look around you stupid fuck, WHO CONTROLS AMERICA? CAPITALISTS DO!!!
You literally have to be ignorant and brainwashed not to see the reality. Look no further then America, look at how rich Capitalists live & what they have, then look at everyone else.
Yes, I've done that. Which is why I know capitalism works so well. The "poor" in capitalism are far better off than the average person under communism.
Communism doesn't lead to poverty, its your perception of wealth that's wrong. In Capitalism most people are not wealthy, very small minority is & wealth inequality increases over time
Inequality is natural, and not itself a problem. It can be bad when inequality goes too far, but inequality itself is fine. It happens in all forms of nature.
True to a point although capitalism gives you much more opportunity at being wealthy over communism. I’ve been to Russia 4 times & have witnessed it for myself...
Human mind is completely polluted with materialism, people have lost meaning of life, are so brainwashed that they can't even see when they allow mass murder due to their own ignorance
This is why Monarchs, Capitalists are always fighting against it, they are literally brainwashing people to hate the very thing that frees them from being economic slaves.
Communism to Capitalism (& Monarchy, Slavery & Feudalism) is what Bitcoin's PoW system is to Central banking PoS system. Its Decentralised economic system to replace centralised ones.
Communism ensures no one can get stupidly rich like that, instead of 0.01% having as much as 1/2 of rest of people, all people would have way more & rich would still be well off.
No one needs or deserves to be that rich, and you don't need to go to Russia to see poor, there are tens of millions of poor people right these in US but also other Capitalist nations
Yes indeed, Capitalism allows you to get extremely rich but in order to do so person needs to be greedy, immoral, psychopathic maniac, no one normal needs or wants such extreme wealth.
Vast majority if people in US (epicenter of Capitalism) are very POOR. National GDP is not good measure of people's wealth? Take just top 10 most wealthy out, and US is poor as shit.
Nothing to do with value& all to do with EARNING FROM YOUR OWN WORK ONLY! COMMUNISM IS ECONOMIC SYSTEM IN WHICH WORKERS OWN MEANS OF PRODUCTION. Communism uses PROOF OF WORK concept.
Capitalism allows everyone to own the means of production in a far better way. In the information age every computer is the MoP. Go produce software. Go buy shares in a company.
Do you even know what you're saying? You are saying someone producing something & benefiting from it themselves is useless. Farmer growing food, selling & taking all profit is useless?
MoP? means of production? How exactly does workers owning their own means of production makes it useless? Don't you know that this is paradox and such thing can't exist?
It isn't a paradox. It is what history shows us. The only model that works is in the capitalist model of a coop. Otherwise the inevitable economic collapse makes it useless to own them
Freedom & Communism can & did exist, its the private ownership their self interest, brainwashing created through TV, adds etc & creation of fear through force, that poisoned human mind
No, that's rubbish. Its people like you and pro-capitalists that don't understand that wealth is EXTRACTED through production of goods and services & that the rich extract wealth.
Wealth is not extracted through production of goods. Wealth is created. The rich invest in ways that allow the same amount of labour to create even more wealth.
Again you show you are so clueless. While its true wealth is created from work, what is this wealth other than PROFITS? And who gets them? The Capitalist does. You just don't get it.
What if i told you workers have their salaries paid in the profits of the company? Employees assume no risk, no financial liability working for the company.
If I use wealth I gained in BCH & just spend it, that wealth goes back into society/economy, but if I use that money to own capitalist business, then I will hoard it & get more of it!
however, by saving money (or "hoarding" it) you are better prepared for an economic downturn. if prices get cheaper you can buy more. saving has a place in the economy.
You know what's funny, even if you knew nothing about Capitalism, if you only looked at actual situation in the world, you would see true effects of Capitalism in action right now
Capitalists claim they use profits to make new jobs but this is not true, they use that money to hoard wealth and buy out more when they crash the markers, rinse & repeat every few yrs
so if you have more money you are guaranteed greater returns? or not? in a free market nothing is guaranteed. Inb4 examples of people using the government to ensure their monopolies.
Its beside the point that businesses do go bust, workers also get out of job, works both ways. Point being is that Capitalist system works for the capitalist only.
capitalist invests $10M, goes bust, loses $10M. worker walked into factory, is handed a job, invests $0. goes bust, walks away, not on the hook for anything. seems fair, no?
The reason people don’t have savings, isn’t because they “can’t save money”. It’s because inflationary monetary policy and debt slavery gives no incentive to save.
With inflationary policy, credit is easy; people borrow what they cannot afford. They don't plan for their future. Look at the debt figures for households in the US. Student loans, etc
Says the guy using the internet, on his smartphone. Just remember the problems in US don’t define its people. Most people are good people, governments are the real problem.
And its because the people allow them to be like this. US government has been attacking others for decades & American people don't do shit about it. You deserve the government you have
Our descent into tyranny has been a long process. Central banking enabled government expansion & created a giant monopoly of power. Blame the elite psychopaths not the people.
So your solution is what? People should not study? Get real. Education was for free in Yugoslavia which is why we had much better educated population. US has worst educated population.
Before 1998 there was no such thing as a student loan. People would work for their higher education. Some still do. College nowadays is baby sitting for adults, not education.
Its just brainwashing, no education on society or thinking, "education" system in capitalism is based on training for a job, nothing more. If you lived outside US you would see this.
“Education” nowadays is a laundry list of useless degrees. Millions of students learning nothing more than how to be good slaves and how to better worship slave masters.
true no incentive to save. though people also seem to have this thought that the gov will just take care of them so they can take out high interest loans for jet skis & vacations.
Exactly right. Most people in the US put owning toys and quick pleasures before ensuring financial future. The Fed teaches people bad habits. Just look at the natl debt.
who cares what they do with the money? they've earned it. it's theirs. also, Taking it out of circulation increases the value of money still in circulation.
And that is exactly what the capitalists do, hoard money, hide in off shore heavens, avoid tax, then when they crash the markets they buy out more wealth and crew over others even more
More % of wealth in hands of few only mean less % of wealth for everyone else. This is how society in capitalism is designed to work you fool. Capitalists get richer, others get poorer
What? Dude, Fiat is printed every fucking day. What the rich capitalists get from profits from work of others is in % more in value of that fiat then what is left for everyone else
That is the basics of Capitalism, not to spend profits but to put it to hire more people, get more profits from more sales & just keep doing over & over. This is how they get so rich.
Why is having more money a problem again? Because there's less for the poor if they have it? Either inflation ensures there is money to pay them or deflation makes it more valuable.
More $ devalues existing $. This prevents poor from saving. While it devalues $ of the rich also, their $ is increasing more then devaluing. It means rich get more % of $ over time.
As I said, if you just spend money you got, you make wealth go back into society, but capitalists don't do that (not all anyway), they use their money to make more of it (% wise).
I saw the post but you are still wrong. You miss the point that even if money is not inflated, capitalist business makes % of wealth accumulate more into hands of capitalist by default
Why does that matter? The poor are never paid less. That only occurs when the company wants to keep more of their profits. Something which isn't possible if employees quit.
Some rich guy coming to town where people are poor, opening some business, hiring them, looks as if rich guy is helping the poor, but actually the poor are making the rich guy richer.
If all of national wealth is 100% then if some person has increasing % of this wealth, they get richer and others get poorer. If you knew Mathematics you would know this.
It is a zero sum game. Person can only get richer IF wealth they have is increasing proportionally MORE then how much total wealth of a nation (or the world) is increasing
By that logic we wouldn't be able to have computers, since no one can create it alone. We need specialization, but if you specialize, you can't directly create wealth, so no money 4 u?
Why does someone owning something gets to take the profits when they didn't do any of these things. Workers help capitalist get rich, the capitalist doesn't help workers, he exploits
It's the company itself that takes the profits. Owning and managing a company is not "doing nothing". The company doesn't exploit them if it pays them.
Ask yourself this: 2 people, 1 just owns business and pays some manager to manage it for him, another owns same businesses but manages it himself. Which one actually works? 1st or 2nd?
Its the 2nd of course. Now take profits of those 2 business, both owners get profits, 1st will pay some wage to manager & take rest of profits for himself, but he did NO WORK at all.
Bitcoin's mining, because it uses Proof of WORK principle, enforced by mathematics, is ONLY system that breaks this pattern of Proof of STAKE exploitation (monarchy, capitalism etc)
How? Having money. But how did he get it? Earned it from his own work? Inherited? Human history is all exploitative, Monarchy, Slavery, Feudalism & Capitalism, all do 1 thing: Exploit.
That alone shows you that Capitalists DO exploit others, They are not helping anyone but themselves. Workers are making them richer, not other way around.
Let the capitalist do all the work himself, see how rich he can get, how many things he can produce. So how about you fuck off with your idiotic comments.
Yes, but not everyone can do this. Not everyone has the skill to run a business, or some personal situations prevents it. No one should be exploited & all skills are useful.
That's not what I said. I said that people should not exploit other people's work as all economic systems to this day, with exception of Communism, are based on that principle.
& where does that salary & profits for the Capitalist(s) come from? It comes from worker's productivity. It literally means workers are paying for everything profits & their own wages.
There is very obvious exploitation, to you and many others (mostly in Capitalist brainwashed society) there is no problem here & according to you capitalist is "helping" people. FUBAR
Clearly you fail to see that its the workers that are creating wealth for the capitalist and not at all that capitalist is helping the workers. Capitalist is a leach sucking out wealth
Thats is not what I said, some FINITE reward is fine & deserved, but Capitalism creates "rewards" that never end becoming INFINITE (thanks to inheritance).
Owning is exactly DOING NOTHING. Managing is doing something, true & not everyone has skill to do it, but its not worth so much more than rest of worker skills. ALL SKILL IS NEEDED
There is no such thing as "the company". Its the PEOPLE that own it... Capitalists (Private ownership, that's what Capitalism is based on). Company is just a concept.
No, people ORGANISE themselves (like a team), share different tasks as people have different skills,things are thought of, produced, distributed, sold etc because of COLLECTIVE EFFORT.
Alright so how do you distribute resources created between your team? No one wants to do volunteering. Some might not need the resource they created. Some worked more than others.
Workplace democracy. Humans do this naturally but capitalism/Feudalism/Monarchy/Slavery prevents this. People should use their different abilities, skills etc & co-operate not dictate.
If you grew it yourself, no one. But you miss a point: that $1000 already existed, you exchanged value (of something you worked for) of useful product (food) for unit of trade.
Did what exist? Wealth? Food? Wealth is something that is useful, and most of it needs work (food grows on it own) but needs work to plant, water, harvest, distribute etc.
So billion dollars companies managed to exploit workers because they had a useful product. Product they traded for money. Product bought by those exploited workers...
And who built those products? The owners? the CEOs? Don't be an idiot, this is such simple logic to understand, yet for some reason you either don't see it or play dumb.
Poor get paid the same but living cost more as there is more $ in hands of few, they drive prices of everything up. You try quit when you live paycheck to paycheck, see how you go.