This Marxist narrative has several holes actually. It assumes that value is absolute, not subjective. It ignores win-win. It ignores the creation of value in cooperation
It also ignores that the workers are free to create their own wealth alone or sell their work at higher cost to someone else if their work is really valuable.
No, capitalism gives people option to try to be like them & exploit others or be exploited. No one can get very rich from their own work, why capitalists use work of others to get rich
You say "no", then you say stuff that supports what I said. They ARE free to choose what to do. Dividing types of labor carries some dangers, but also has big advantages
Dividing labor is fine & needed surely, which is why I say production is a COLLECTIVE effort, but in Capitalism the capitalist takes the rewards from productivity of worker collective.
There will always be someone closer to the money who will be tempted to take more for themselves. In any system. Are you saying the workers never take any part in any rewards?
I am saying workers (those that govern are workers also) should always get proportional rewards to amount of work they have done only, not more or less. Capitalism doesn't provide that
I am saying that workers, when they make decisions collectively, you wont have wars to fuel profiteering, or pollution of nature or state, because they go against interest of workers.
Its not free choice as society has been structured, driven by the economic & political system, so that you HAVE TO chose between being working for capitalists or try to be like them.
No, I do not have to do that. I can also work for myself. Also, nothing stops me from starting a company of equal partners who part-take in every decision and do the same work.
Capitalist going into place where people are poor, setting up some business, "giving" these poor people jobs with shit wage (because he can, as people are desperate) is exploitation.
& its not Capitalist helping them, but capitalist helping himself, looking for opportunity to exploit the vulnerability of others in need, why capitalist create wars & love immigration
Sometimes those poor people are OK with the arrangement. I do agree that people sometimes do horrible things, but I don't believe other systems keep bad people more in check
That is the point I am trying to make, its the capitalist that needs other people to produce things, him alone can't do shit... its the other workers that he needs to make him rich.
Often the company does big jobs that the workers individually cannot do. That means mutual dependency instead of one-way dependency that you pretend is the only state.
Yes, you can try do that, never said you can't, but you can never get very rich like this because you NEED HELP of other people to make your business grow, you can't do it alone.
"Exploited" is a narrow and overly negative way to view it. I have mostly preferred to have a job where I specialized in one thing and let others do finance for example. Free choice
We are btw quite free to set up companies where "everyone does everything" if we want. Groups of people who specialize for different parts of a job will likely be more effective though
And I would argue, the increase in efficiency might make everyone in the group richer than if nobody specialized. Also be aware that some people are only fit for some jobs
You need to think bit deeper to see this, this is very simple logic and truth, but its propaganda narrated by capitalists that twisted your reality so you don't see this.
To me it looks like it is you who are twisted. I do not have to play this game to get rich, if I do not seek to get rich. I can choose to do so if I want to, but I do not have to.
The only people who can get wealthy (but not absurdly wealthy) is sportsman, actors etc, people who can't get other people to work for them & have to earn in from their own work only.
I never said such thing, what I said is that ONLY WAY someone can get so rich, is if they exploit work of others, which is what Capitalism & all previous economic system did as well.