My parents gave me shit throughout my childhood, it doesn't create some kind of obligation on my part.
Staying creates the obligation. You may not understand the value of having been born in a stable nation, but that doesn't mean you didn't benefit from it.
It’s voluntary because you can leave
Taxes aren't voluntary. No one ever said they were. They are mandatory, you receive shit from the government that you didn't ask for and are expected to pay.
In a way, it's like those homeless people that put something in your hand and demand that you pay them for it.
Like those guys that randomly come up and wipe your windows without you asking at all, and then they bang on your car and scream at you when you don't pay them.
exactly, love that comparison. like the homeless people who wash your window with a dirty rag then demand payment.
I didn't ask for the war in Iraq, yet I'm still expected to pay for it. NASA? What if i don't want a space program? Still forced to pay.
Do i at least get to DIRECTLY control how my stolen money is spent? No. I have to *elect* some motherfucker who decides for me.
Your money is going to build a wall because Mexico isn't paying for it. LOL.
But do i get to choose whether i pay for it? NOPE
Because apparently informing ourselves when we make political decisions is too hard to do. We simply just have to trust it to people that are more "capable" than us to make decisions.
In a world where anyone can vote, and inform themselves on political matters from the comfort of their home with a internet connected device paired with blockchain security to boot.
But no guys, we can't have direct democracy! Tyranny of the majority!!! Like the majority doesn't get what the fuck they want anyway.
Elected representation is so good that we got stuck with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump as our only two choices!!! And we didn't even get to pick between the two, not really!
lol - oops typed at the same time.🤦♀️
Taxes are voluntary.
According to which government?
Starting to think this guy is just trolling and he doesn't actually believe a word he says. Posterity will throw him in with ED and LightRider.
What about (un)SilentSam? 😎
This place is such a good uncensorable & immutable microcosm of online opinion shaping and disinformation. It will make a great study someday ✍🏼
Lol, I think ED and LightRider are for real (no offence, you 2. Weagree on lots). TrashPoster, however, is definitely just a master shit-poster.
You couldn't deduce that from the username? ;)
You can always go live in the wilderness. No one is stopping you. That said the penalty for not paying taxes isn't the same everywhere. They dont jail you in Canada.
You could always stop defending mass fraud (taxation).
No one is stopping you.
Why should those contending the fraud be the ones to go?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I have guns pointed at me all day and that's totally what voluntary means. /s
Except you dont. They will imprison you in the USA for not paying though I guess.
And of you request, you are met with those guns aforementioned.
So yeah, I do. So do most others.
It is harsh that the USA enforces taxes that hard, but the fact that the requirement is enforced does not lead to why you are not obligated to pay in the first place.
What?
It should be a simple concept. At a basic level we are obligated to be good to one another. The fact that we enforce laws people agree upon doesnt mean we are not obligated to be good.
How is systematic theft being good to Anyone victim of such?
Systematic theft isn't good. Systematic theft is people and companies not paying their taxes.
How do you define taxation?
Well not as theft for one. It is part of your contribution to the society you live in. It allows the system to run. You want the Google definition?
I'm asking for Your definition.
Is Google you?
Well I gave you mine.
That taxation is part of your contribution to society?
To be more specific one is obligated to pay for the services rendered. One can choose to leave the society that uses taxation, and no longer be obligated to pay.
"You grew up knowing you were receiving those benefits, and would be asked go pay your share when you could. If you didn't make plans to leave hen you consented." - SILENTSAM
Ah, anarco-capitalists. You should stop arguing that taxes are immoral because they're involuntary. How about arguing that their immoral because it's stealing.
The conversation started with do people consent to taxes.
I mean, involuntary is part of stealing. if stealing were voluntary it would be a transaction.
"anarco-capitalists" LOL.
Yes, and both can leave. Both may not think they can, but they can.
By the same logic if you are held at gun point & asked for all your money, you can choose to not give it up at the risk of getting shot. That does not make giving it up voluntary.
& having the “choice” to not give it up does not make the interaction an exchange instead of stealing.
Even if the robber gives some of the money to charity or buys the victim a drink with the stolen money doesn’t change the fact that it was stolen.
This all of course assumes you agree that money you earn from your own work belongs to you. You could try to argue all money earned/value created belongs to the group.
Can without repercussions?
All actions have repercussions. Good, or bad. That said the repercussions of not paying taxes differs by country. He IRS arrests you and the CRA sends strongly worded letters.
Staying isn't an action or a means of positive assent to some kind of obligation to be imposed on others.
I guess if a woman stays in a neighborhood she consents to being raped?
In the case of taxation it is. It isn't nearly staying, or leaving. It is a matter of receiving the benefits everyone there pays into, while acting as if you dont have to contribute.
Staying on earth (because pretty much everywhere is a tax farm now) validates being stolen from, because you benefitted from previous work not done explicitly for you?
To a certain degree though, yes it does. Humans are social creatures, and we have put a lot of work into civilization. Humans expect other humans to contribute. We are social creatures
It does? Isn't systematic stealing ("contributing") an anti-social activity?
The only theft is by those not paying their taxes while living off of the benefits of them. It is theft from the community. This leaves the society free to reject you.
Doesn't monopolization prevent the ability to make alternatives to use instead, such as the roads? Health care?
Doesn't this decrease efficiency?
Yes, and no. Healthcare is an example how? How is this related to the idea of taxation as theft though? Many different nations have different competing systems over time.
Are you not familiar with the welfare state, Obamacare, and such?
Healthcare related to taxation.
I am familiar with how it helps the system and reduces costs. It made things more efficient. That said Obamacare is a right wing healthcare system. Single payer would have been better.
So, those who reject the idea of taxation based on its involuntary nature and speak out against it as a violation of consent, aren't being stolen from?
No they are not. They are just being dramatic. Especially considering the untrue nature of the premises their argument stand on.
And how it is untrue that they are being stolen from?
It is a trade that the people have agreed upon communally. Attempting to live there without paying taxes would be the only real theft. Leaving would be how you would avoid stealing.
Not everywhere. There are lots of places one can go. Many still within national borders letting you still benefit a small amount for free. Lots of land outside of civilization.
