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Raineko
2398d · Flat Earth
So now flat earthers believe that there is an aether? lol
En Fri Mand
replied 2398d
No because flat earthers don't believe there is an universe.
replied 2398d
😳 & you call generating new hypotheses from null results a 'workaround'?! ignoring everything outside the firmament doesn't count as a workaround?
En Fri Mand
replied 2398d
To me it looks like the theory came to rescue the globe model.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
Read this before making claims based on Michelson Morley. http://adsbit.harvard.edu//full/1928ApJ....68..341M/0000341.000.html
replied 2396d
the hypothesis of an aether has been tested by many people under many conditions and failed to produce a non null result.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
I'm enjoying how you're suddenly an expert on this experiment after reading half a Wikipedia entry
replied 2396d
well being snobby about doesn't help anyone. you're really not doing a good job of educating are you.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
Those are just from when they point the thing in the direction of earth's orbit. Michelson got readings pointing in other directions.
replied 2396d
He did not. Also the experiment only works by poi ti g in two perpendicular directions at once.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
We can't continue discussing this until you read this http://adsbit.harvard.edu//full/1928ApJ....68..341M/0000341.000.html
replied 2395d
Yes, as I said, he never confirmed an aether, and didn't only do it in one direction. Thanks for posting the evidence that refutes you.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2395d
Forgive me if it makes you uncomfortable that I have a hard time believeing in the religion of the cult of Einstein and his government subsidized legacy of reaserch projects.
replied 2394d
His theories have been confirmed with all tests so far. You can deny science while using it all you want. You belief is not needed.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
It's not as uncommon as you might think. There are many logical absurdities in special reletivity. http://www.physics.semantrium.com/relativity.html
replied 2394d
Actually special relativity is logically constant. It is the layman explanations that lead to these paradoxes.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
That's starting to sound a lot like a religious belief.
replied 2394d
That is quite the leap. Can you explain the reason why Einsteins equations predict things so well if they are not correct? Why is it so good at explaining observations?
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
I'm not sure why there's so many evangelists who feel the need to defend it so hard. There's as many head scratchers as there are "proofs". And then quantum is just not even close.
replied 2393d
Most of what you call headscratchers are not even problems. It is how things work. Time and space are related, and perpendicular to each other. Quantum field theory is quite verified.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
So clearly it's an incomplete theory at best, at worst completely wrong. There's been lots of scientific models historically that predicted things well enough but ended up in the bin.
replied 2393d
So far no problems have been found with SR, or QFT. They break down when modelling a singularity. String theory just eliminates the point particle.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2393d
To paraphrase - if you find a different explanation for some phenomina used to prove relativity, it doesn't matter. I'm right and you're wrong and there's nothing you can do about it.
replied 2393d
To be more accurate it is if you find an explanation with more accurate predictive capability, after observing something the current theory does not predict. You can't, so it stands.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2392d
The current theory has made it so we have to believe in dark matter and dark energy, things we can't observe, because then the equations work out. Prediction didn't match observation.
replied 2392d
Except their effects have been observed. Observing those effects has actually helped confirm general relativity as dark matter has been seen warping space.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2391d
"Observing the effects" is just a clever way of saying "it must be there, otherwise our equations are way off". They might as well call it The Force that holds the universe together.
replied 2391d
That is incorrect. We have observed dark matter separate from regular matter. When galaxies collide the dark matter continues past, and causing gravitational lensing without matter.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2391d
Show me. Sounds easily p-hackable(like the original dog feces data they took with the sun bending starlight etc.)
replied 2391d
replied 2391d
An article about it. This is observed in many galaxy and galaxy cluster collisions.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2393d
[a classical explanation] "does not in the least diminish the conclusiveness of the experiment as a crucial test of the theory of relativity" - Albert Einstein (scientist)
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
It predicts stuff pretty well locally but on a cosmic scale the numbers get funky, you start needing string theory or dark matter to fix the equations. Then there's quantum mechanics.
replied 2394d
Where is Sheldon when you need him 🤷‍♀️🤔
replied 2394d
I've not encountered anyone who thinks Gen/Spcl Relativity is false. Amazes me. The irony that they probably use things like GPS that would not work if SR weren't taken into account.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
Just because it works in a micro-situation like GPS doesn't prove that that's necessarily the mechanism making it happen.
replied 2394d
I've met them. Had one at work tell me how Einstein was the greatest liar, and that Karl Marx was the greatest mind ever.
replied 2394d
If the basics of economics and physics magically got turned upside down he would be correct.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2394d
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2395d
He never confirmed a static, non-moving aether. The interferometer did get plenty of readings though. That flys in the face of special reletivity.
replied 2396d
got non-null readings? these experiments all "got readings".
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
If you understand the experiment and what special reletivity claimes you'd know that any reading at all is significant. If the speed of light is a constant it should be dead zero.
replied 2396d
no exp set up measures dead zero. every instrument has a detection limit. The measured upper limit of the anisotropy in the speed of light is 10^-17.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2396d
Yeah but it shouldn't change when you're pointing it in different directions. Or if it does it should be random. It did and it wasn't.
replied 2396d
It never changed depending on direction. That is what the experiment confirmed. I understand the experiment. You obviously do not.
replied 2396d
it did... above the detection limit? anisotropy is a measure of the difference in the two directions. so what do you mean by "pointing it in different directions?"
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2395d
replied 2393d
thank you
replied 2396d
When faced with a negative result you can say 1) your hypothesis is incorrect, and generate a new hypothesis 2) your hypothesis is correct but your experimental set up failed.
En Fri Mand
replied 2398d
So Einstein's theory of relativity works because it's a null result?
replied 2396d
Describing the natural world is making predictions that can be & have been tested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity
replied 2396d
No, the Michelson Morley experiment was a null (negative) result. So scientists generated a new hypothesis, and tested its ability to describe the natural world.