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Sk8eM dUb
replied 2418d
This is a chicken and egg question here. Do societies that value a certain set of human rights succeed? Or is it that if a society is successful they come to value human rights?
replied 2417d
So, I think more individualistic societies will over time out compete more collectivist ones, ending at what I consider the most individualistic, ancap.
John_Doe
replied 2417d
If allowed, they will. You will always get power hungry people making crazy promises to the poor to get votes. The system then starts to break down. Bastiat's solution is best.
replied 2416d
can you elaborate on Bastiat's solution or provide a link?
John_Doe
replied 2416d
https://fee.org/articles/the-bastiat-solution/
He sums it up nicely. If you haven't read The Law. It is well worth it.
replied 2416d
thank you. good read. agree. havent read the law but i've read a lot of exerts. might have it. its on my list to read.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2417d
The trick seems to be, finding the sweet spot where you have individual autonomy within concentric circles of family, neighborhood, city, nation, world. All in proper balance.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2417d
The reality seems more like a cycle. As we get more individualistic we wake up and become more successful, then we get arrogant and lazy, then fall asleep back into collective tribes.
replied 2416d
It’s like each country tends towards collectivism during its life, but when it hits one of these sharp turning points a new level of individualism is reached.
replied 2416d
Through the 1900s where people started moving around more. Interacting with & living with those of different race, religion, and class.
replied 2416d
I think on the whole the trend is towards more individualism. Especially if you look from Ancient societies where everyone interacted with the same race, religion, government, class.
replied 2416d
Yeah there’s definitely a cycle. Was talking with kokansei here somewhere about how states just grow until there is some sharp turning point back to a smaller state.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2417d
So I think the fallacy is when you assume that individualism will reach some kind of escape velocity. This sounds a lot like the Soviet Man. It's just another "substitute for Jesus".
replied 2416d
Most people when they taste freedom (which I think more individualism would be more freedom) they crave more of it. (E.g. people liberated from oppressive regimes)
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2414d
And then if you're born free and you're spoiled and ungrateful you start to think communism would be cool cuz VIVA LA REVOLUCION
replied 2414d
unfortunately seems to be the trend :(
replied 2416d
Agree it sounds like Soviet man. Not sure it needs to reach an escape velocity and then everything is a peaceful utopia, likely more of a gradual trend toward freedom and individualism
replied 2417d
There is a causal effect of individualism in society on economic growth. https://eml.berkeley.edu/~ygorodni/GR_PNAS.pdf
replied 2417d
Individualism seems to be a big part of being an ancap.