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replied 2327d
It is a zero sum game. Person can only get richer IF wealth they have is increasing proportionally MORE then how much total wealth of a nation (or the world) is increasing
John_Doe
replied 2326d
If I grow $1000 worth of corn. Who did I exploit? That value did not exist before I grew my crop.
replied 2325d
You created wealth with your work. You exchange it for money which later you exchange for other useful things others created with their work.
replied 2325d
By that logic we wouldn't be able to have computers, since no one can create it alone. We need specialization, but if you specialize, you can't directly create wealth, so no money 4 u?
replied 2325d
Why does someone owning something gets to take the profits when they didn't do any of these things. Workers help capitalist get rich, the capitalist doesn't help workers, he exploits
replied 2325d
It's the company itself that takes the profits. Owning and managing a company is not "doing nothing". The company doesn't exploit them if it pays them.
replied 2325d
Ask yourself this: 2 people, 1 just owns business and pays some manager to manage it for him, another owns same businesses but manages it himself. Which one actually works? 1st or 2nd?
replied 2325d
Its the 2nd of course. Now take profits of those 2 business, both owners get profits, 1st will pay some wage to manager & take rest of profits for himself, but he did NO WORK at all.
replied 2325d
But how did he get to the point of owning a business ?
replied 2325d
Bitcoin's mining, because it uses Proof of WORK principle, enforced by mathematics, is ONLY system that breaks this pattern of Proof of STAKE exploitation (monarchy, capitalism etc)
replied 2325d
How? Having money. But how did he get it? Earned it from his own work? Inherited? Human history is all exploitative, Monarchy, Slavery, Feudalism & Capitalism, all do 1 thing: Exploit.
replied 2325d
That alone shows you that Capitalists DO exploit others, They are not helping anyone but themselves. Workers are making them richer, not other way around.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2325d
Workers are free to not work for them.
replied 2325d
Let the capitalist do all the work himself, see how rich he can get, how many things he can produce. So how about you fuck off with your idiotic comments.
replied 2325d
They are also "free" to starve, right? That is such a stupid and ignorant thing to say, it really is.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2325d
They are definitely free to start their own business. Nobody will stop them.
replied 2324d
Yes, but not everyone can do this. Not everyone has the skill to run a business, or some personal situations prevents it. No one should be exploited & all skills are useful.
John_Doe
replied 2324d
So you admit it takes skill to run a business. I rest my case.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2324d
So because not everyone has the skill to run a business nobody should do it?
replied 2324d
That's not what I said. I said that people should not exploit other people's work as all economic systems to this day, with exception of Communism, are based on that principle.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2324d
And because someone is getting a salary to do some work that person is automatically being exploited?
replied 2324d
You just don't understand how things really work in Capitalism.
replied 2324d
& where does that salary & profits for the Capitalist(s) come from? It comes from worker's productivity. It literally means workers are paying for everything profits & their own wages.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2324d
Right. I fail to see any problem here.
replied 2323d
There is very obvious exploitation, to you and many others (mostly in Capitalist brainwashed society) there is no problem here & according to you capitalist is "helping" people. FUBAR
replied 2323d
Clearly you fail to see that its the workers that are creating wealth for the capitalist and not at all that capitalist is helping the workers. Capitalist is a leach sucking out wealth
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2323d
So the capitalist taking financial risks and putting efforts at starting a new business should not get rewarded? Am I getting this right?
replied 2322d
Thats is not what I said, some FINITE reward is fine & deserved, but Capitalism creates "rewards" that never end becoming INFINITE (thanks to inheritance).
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2322d
Everything at some point comes to an end.
replied 2325d
Company (its owners) are exploiting as owners don't do anything, workers are the ones doing everything. How can you not see this?
John_Doe
replied 2324d
You just admitted it takes skill to run a business. Saying they do nothing is dishonest.
replied 2325d
Owning is exactly DOING NOTHING. Managing is doing something, true & not everyone has skill to do it, but its not worth so much more than rest of worker skills. ALL SKILL IS NEEDED
replied 2325d
There is no such thing as "the company". Its the PEOPLE that own it... Capitalists (Private ownership, that's what Capitalism is based on). Company is just a concept.
replied 2325d
No, people ORGANISE themselves (like a team), share different tasks as people have different skills,things are thought of, produced, distributed, sold etc because of COLLECTIVE EFFORT.
replied 2325d
Alright so how do you distribute resources created between your team? No one wants to do volunteering. Some might not need the resource they created. Some worked more than others.
replied 2325d
Workplace democracy. Humans do this naturally but capitalism/Feudalism/Monarchy/Slavery prevents this. People should use their different abilities, skills etc & co-operate not dictate.
replied 2325d
If you grew it yourself, no one. But you miss a point: that $1000 already existed, you exchanged value (of something you worked for) of useful product (food) for unit of trade.
John_Doe
replied 2325d
Did it exist before the seeds were planted, grown and harvested?
replied 2325d
Did what exist? Wealth? Food? Wealth is something that is useful, and most of it needs work (food grows on it own) but needs work to plant, water, harvest, distribute etc.
John_Doe
replied 2325d
The value. The asset that can be sold. That which you say the rich steal from workers. Did that exist before it is grown?
replied 2325d
All value comes from natural resources and WORK put into it to shape the natural resource into something useful.
John_Doe
replied 2324d
Not answering the question.
replied 2325d
So billion dollars companies managed to exploit workers because they had a useful product. Product they traded for money. Product bought by those exploited workers...
replied 2325d
And who built those products? The owners? the CEOs? Don't be an idiot, this is such simple logic to understand, yet for some reason you either don't see it or play dumb.