Yes, i believe he will fight for Bitcoin better than anyone else. I’ve been waiting for this fight and for resorting Satoshi’s vision for over half a decade. It’s time.
I’m not trying to argue one side over the other BTW. I am just trying to have an honest open minded discussion. Like I said, take out CSW & I like both SV & ABC plans forward.
I think the big argument that no one is having(and CSW is terrible at explaining) is how CTOR wrecks the competition part of the Nash equilibrium of Bitcoin mining.
Agree. Best way to be, but I like CSW. He guided me against Segwit and LN. I’ve watched his interviews since 2014 and goals unchanged. Exact same speeches. Bitcoin needs a fighter
The problem is, in capitalism *failure* is very important. You need to constantly get the lead out or the whole thing gets bloated with dead weight. This is what ABC devs do not get.
This is what most everybody do not get. So let's not be surprised.
You often hear the talking point "faster block propagation benifits everyone equally". In reality, it eliminates the try-outs for the big leagues. Anyone can play and succeed, yay!
You can think of mining like baseball. CTOR puts little leaguers on the same playing feild as major league players. This sounds nice at first but in reality it wrecks the game.
If “Satoshi Vision” wasn’t in the name and you were only looking at the fundamentals of BCHABC then wouldn’t you think it was SV also though? Both are going for same thing.
...terrify me (1-2 min blocks, POS). I can’t take it anymore. I just want a stable protocol.
He was also asked in the same Q&A about the 6 month upgrades and he said that these would only continue until a solid foundation was achieved, then building on top from there.
He can to that with his fork. Miners seem to want what Satoshi envisioned and no more experimentations.
Really? I recently watched a 2 hour Q&A with Amrey where he was specifically asked if 1-2 minute block sizes were in the road map for the future and he said no.
Follow that link to see some Amaury, Jihan, Hiapo tweets discussing altering block times.
That video is amazing. Pissed my pants funny. 🤣 Cant wait for this to be over so we can build further.
I would think about what he said but im to busy following BCHSV to the moon right now. (up 38% today). 🚀 wondering if I should buy 50 more or 100? Or wait?
lol ok you do you man
Maybe this conversation would be better had with someone else who hasn’t “chosen a side” and still has an unbiased viewpoint.
In two days, you may be debating about a chain that no longer exists. BCHABC is getting crushed by markets. Those people debating with their $ on Polo have pushed BCHSV to 63% gains
I wasn’t looking for a pissing war debate. As I said before, I am looking for an open minded discussion. All due respect I’m not looking for a price meme circle jerk get rich quick
SV looks destined to be data storage, ABC looks like a next step (but perhaps not the most logical one). The big red flag for me is shrouding of code and patenting on nChain's part.
Thank you for bringing this up. I have seen several debates and Q&A on ABC plans for upgrades ect but hardly anything for SV. Ive only found “sales pitch” style videos for SV.
If anyone has a link they can share of a Q&A style video on SV plans that isn’t a “sales pitch” I would really appreciate it. I’m so confused on what SV actually plans on doing
If you assume that craig/nchain is in control, then just read his twitter feed to learn that they want to recover stale coins, remove P2SH, remove anonymity as a concept.. (cont)
Recovering stale coins is FUD. He means that decades from now, Moore's law will eventually make it financially feasible to brute force "mine" keys encrypted with current algorithms.
sounds more like a threat than FUD...
No, he does want to recover lost coins. The guy is a nut bag, and is as bad for Bitcoin as Core.
There are more than one way to handle that scenario. One could very publicly "sunset" (to use his own words) the systems and then lock them down.
how removing anonymity?
P2SH wasn't part of the original, so it makes sense. All the other things don't make sense at all.
How has not been specified. Just a clarification that they want pseudonymity only because anonymity enables lawbreaking and they want to build to cater to current law.
anyone knows that bitcoin isn't anonymous in it's current form already.
(cont).. implement DSV opcode as a miner-fee code so any use of it on ABC side results in miner fees and lots and lots of other things.
..while still claiming to "lock down" protocol.
I think that may be because it is primarily a sales business, at least judging by their "open positions" (one C+ dev, lots of bureaucracy & sales)
Damn... that sucks. Most I’ve been able to find is Jimmy Nuguyen speeches & Ryan X Charles. Really wish I could learn for than a sales pitch. Like what their Devs have to say.
They know the right things to say, I'll give them that...it doesn't seem to jive with their actions.
Unfortunately charisma only goes so far. Eventually you need some meat to go with the potatoes, so to speak. The lack of open disclosure from SV has been concerning for me.
The beauty with SV is in the lack of plans for significant changes. That is what makes it alluring. Restoration of what was taken away from Bitcoin.
Totally this. The game theory and balancing of incentives/rewards/difficulty was all worked out by Satoshi in 2008. One more fork to uncap the blocksize and tweak the opcodes then done
Maybe its just me but I don't get why the "original vision" is so important. Shouldn't we improve with the times?
What he said. Also the seemingly small changes you make now will have massive consequences down the road. If you wreck the economic structure it will eventually collapse.
The converse is just as applicable, and there is no sure shot way of knowing which will work out
Even if you knew that you actually improved stuff, many people, like merchants need a stable protocol, so they can implement once and then use, it just works.
Absolutely, but it might be too early to focus on stability. I'm of the opinion that it is better to try different things at this stage and focus on stability later on
Why not create a toy coin on which to "try different things"? Inexperienced coders like new cool and exciting stuff that elevates them as early adopters instead of old stuff that works
Thats what almost all the tokens/coins today are, and if it "works" whats the point of any upgrade at all
Restoration of op codes that were removed (and not fixed) because they did not matter. How is that an "enhancement"?
All taken with a grain of salt, but that's what it distills to in my mind: opens source & open contribution is a must.
In essence, leave base protocol untouched. Safely removing limits. Build on top whatever you want.
And you don't see the value in pumping SV then buying ABC on the cheep once eyes are on the prize?
I bought a few sv around $70, sold them now for $170...and wont buy them again.
I just bought BCHABC at $320 and will be buying more :-)
Nice work! BCHABC had flash crash to $220. I can’t fuck with that lol 😆
Yea a noob panic sold into very low buyside and pushed price low,low, feel sorry for him now.(if he then bought sv above $150, then he will be crying,holding bags of bsvcoin,not BCH)
No way lol. I took massive profits at $181 and bought BCHSV back at $156ish. I’m running the bullish flag breakout to $373.3 target.
The buy support is fake, this is why i got out
carful your not left holding the bags
Maybe one last push over $200, but then the sellside will be higher than buyside
good luck bro :-)
Let’s make a bet? I bet you 100 million Satoshi on BCHSV crushing BCHABC to $0 after the fork! I’ll give you the memo tip.
Acrually, I have 95 BCHSV I can make this fun. I bet you 1 BCH post hashwar that BCHABC goes to $0
That's assuming there will be a chainsplit at all. Frankly I'm getting my funds out of BCH until the fork is over. Then I'll pick a side based on merit and price.
Smart. That’s what I did too.. bch too risky atm, and even if sv wins , he has antagonised a lot of people. Not nice..
I guess there will be no split technically because ABC will not exist I put my BCH in paper wallets though. No hot wallet BCH except here.
There is still the aftermath to be concerned with. Mining pools, web sites etc. planning to support ABC will have to adjust to SV should ABC not be able to survive.
Correct. They will learn that hashpower rules (not developers). Luckily, BCH is still young and investors are salivating over it (increasing in price in crypto bear market).
With SV, the developers are the miners. They run the biggest mining pools. If they say SV wants to give control to miners they are saying SV wants to give control to CSW/nChain/Calvin.
Why is my name never including among the miners while I am mining on SVpool too alludes me.
because that wouldn't fit the narrative :)
Hopefully after they "gain control" they'll encourage healthy competition between pools. With a real bull market and increasing institutional adoption mining will get very competitive
They won't have a choice. Anyone can "gain control" if they are competitive enough.
Bingo! "Gain control" is a phrase used to frighten and(ironically) control you. The only way C&C win after gaining majority hashrate is by making Bitcoin amazingly good money.
Salivating? Euhm...after a short rally above $500, it is collapseing again - also against BTC. Down to 0.8 again.
FIrst when the news broke that Coinbase and Binance went with ABC the price rose 40% in a day, now that SV looks like the hash winner the price is dropping like a rock.
That’s ok, remember I’m a hoarder. I love hoarding me a bunch of BCH. So addictive!
You’re looking at BCH. I’m looking at BCHSV futures
Uh huh...$200 for and $300 for ABC. But yes, SV seems to gain some steam, however it has gain up to $500 at least in order to not have decreased value for BCH after fork.
ABC will survive. Don't fall victim to CSW's empty threats.
Blocksize was an acceptable adjustment. But both parties are making changes severe enough to warrant this degree of infighting.
What bothers me more isn't CSW, but rather the fact that we are splitting Bitcoin again when it should remain a single, safety audited coin that operates with minimal change forever.
Why do you think we are splitting? Who is not willing to even talk to the community, much less compromise on certain upgrades... It's CSW. He is a fucking psychopath.
Once this hashwar is done, we’ll take out BTC/Core next and to starve the altcoin market. Then only
#1Bitcoin for life. Takes time
Will Memo write to the BCH SV chain or the BCH ABC chain should there be a successful split?
ABC will change PoW to either what monero or sia was using. Jihan needs to get use to that bricked units.
If they try to call it Bitcoin there's going to be hell to pay. What a fiasco.
Do we think Roger will say that he thinks the Bitcoin white paper doesn't work? What of Bitcoin.com?
lol, lets wait and see what happens, will bch split or not?
btw sv is bad for memo, with sv you need to pay at different times to keep your comments on the chain.
Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean “with sv you need to pay at different times to keep your comments on the chain”?
If the miners are stingy, they'll drop the OP_RETURN unless you make good. If the miners are centralized, this is inevitable.
ELI5?
Sorry 😬
I genuinely try my best to learn everyday, it’s been 2 years now and I still feel like there is so much I don’t know
Memo stores messages as an OP_RETURN value in the transaction. Miners are not required to retain this information. If one entity controls enough miners, they can charge you to keep it.
Ohhhhhh ok thank you so much for taking the time to teach me that ☺️ Appreciated
At least, I think that was the implication...
BCHABC is getting crushed? Actually, it looks to be worth 2x BCHSV. And Polo is not an indicator of the market. It's one small exchange.
Markets AND miners are supporting BCHSV makes you think WTF? Or 🤑🤑🤑Better to just follow the hash and futures and make some money. I’ll think on vacation 🤔 lol 😆
Markets are supporting ABC, are you blind? Also the miners supporting SV are mining at a loss right now. The miners that support ABC are smarter and don't waste money before the fork.
Yes, what you just showed me is an image of BCHABC winning the market by almost 2x.
Interesting perspective! I look at what is moving up. BCHSV up again at 74% gain today at $194 and BCHABC down even more to $321 for 18% loss for the day. Try to see cup half full??
One small exchange with little volume is not the market. You are a dumbass.
I’m mining at a loss I agree because I’m looking long term. I told CSW I’ll mine with him even if BCH goes to $0 to win hashwar AND I have recruited miners to do so too
Making *their* money is not the objective. Protecting *our* money is.
You MUST remember. Hashpower PROTECTS your money. NOT miners. You MUST learn this
Hashpower protects only the chain. If your coin becomes unwanted, it was lacking protection elsewhere and all the hashpower in the world cannot save it.
I’m making money with BCHSV AND protecting money with extra hash power to SVpool. Is that what you mean?
And the perfect place to pump/dump.
I couldn't agree more. It's ridiculous to say this one small exchange with negligible volume is any indication of what the market chooses.
I've heard this too. You got a source?
That Reddit link is about 6 mo hard fork in ABC code making it compulsory. Each day I keep reading something worse making ABC vision seem like a nightmare
Wow, not bueno. Hard pass.
Any miner that sees this will pass too. Ironic that Roger is putting his weight behind perpetual war.
Can we also appreciate the fact that it says "GREAT WALL ACTIVATION"!?!?
What the living hell?
What's going on here? Don't tell me they're changing the algorithm?! Hahaha
And just like that.... Aumary concedes defeat???
Greasy Frenchman, always knew he was up to tricks 🕵️
Yeah...like actually creating BCH, instead of fuck-all like our Lord and master CSW, May Patents Be Upon Him!
If they change the PoW algo and then try to claim(with a cadre of exchanges) that it's "the real BCH" and the living SV fork is not, I guess I won't be surprised.
Seems like BCHSV is forming a bullish flag and can pop but I’m not sure?
BTW, have you studied BCHSV polo chart? I’m wondering if I should buy more or wait for dip?
Actually, before even looking I know that it'll go the same way as the BCH price in general. Break outs will happen at $544 and $568 since they'll be millions in stop loss orders there
🤖 1 BCH = 510.44$ 📉 -0.25%
Tips = fuel️
#BCHprice
I don't understand their terms and have been reluctant to get involved because of this. Who's to say they don't just declare ABC the winner after a brief hash win?
You can see Jihan tweets. Hiapo tweets. I think Amaury tweet I saw first time in Scatman video. Compulsory 6 mo hard fork written into ABC I learned about only today
No BCHABC has more and more things that concern me. I learned today that the 6 month hard fork is compulsory, written into the code. Amaury Jihan Haipo have suggested changes that...
