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Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
I don't trust any reported rates. I'm talking about white collar crime and things like congresspeople using regulations to affect markets and take trades, regulatory capture, etc.
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replied 2373d
but even reported corruption (defined however but applied universally) is less in economically freer countries. I wouldn’t take the lack of a stat as proof freer have more corruption
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
"More" is your problematic word here. Are talking number of people? Raw dollar amount. $$ per capita? % of GDP? As usual, you can extract any Narrative you wish.
replied 2373d
either way, a lack of a stat doesnt prove more or less (defined as raw dollars, per cap, or %GDP) the only stats we have (which is universally applied) show econ freedom = less corrupt
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
If you're using raw dollar amounts the largest economies are kings. Remember the 2008 housing crisis? What was that, 10 trillion dollhairs??
replied 2373d
i mean sure, if you have different definitions for crimes (like insider trading by congress) the 'official numbers' wont report that. i agree that should be a crime too.
minkaminka
replied 2373d
All people who are friendly have the propensity for insider trader. Just a phone call with a friend.
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replied 2373d
was talking about crime stats. insider trading was an example. meant if congress says insider trading is illegal they should also be bound by that. i'd rather insider trading be legal.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
Insider trading is fine. I'm talking about funding color revolutions just to start a civil war and tank a currency that you shorted, starting wars to keep oil prices up, etc.
replied 2373d
have you looked for academic papers? people might have tried to measure these things.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
If you got a Narrative I got a statistic to prove it. I grew up i a town famous for gangsters(and still run by them) so I don't buy the "corruption and freedom don't mix" line of logic
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replied 2373d
We’re trying to see how humans behave on average which requires more than a single data point. Who knows, the data may support your experience.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
Here's some fascinating history about my city and the gangsters we spawned. (long read alert) http://www.vintageplayboymags.co.uk/Interviews/Alinsky_Saul.htm
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replied 2372d
Violence surrounds black market activities because the legal system no longer supports them. Alcohol industry isn’t violent today. Weed in CO isn’t violent.
replied 2372d
Another story from Chicago history https://fee.org/articles/ideas-and-consequences-of-meat-and-myth/ relevant part
replied 2372d
As it is (like all other crony capitalism) laws meant to take down large players end up just targeting smaller players and reenforcing market dominance.
replied 2372d
So, gov oversteps their bounds, outlaws thing people actually want, Capone supplies things. Without the laws Capone wouldn’t have been so strong as he’d have real competition.
replied 2372d
Thank you, parts I read were interesting. Chicago history is interesting, I liked Devil in the White City too. Capone was government supported though.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2371d
Interesting hearing dogmas of capitalism come out of Alinsky's mouth right? "Community organizing" is nothing more than using useful idiots to pass laws to fatten your bank account.
replied 2371d
If you are to become a complete and wise leader you must embrace a larger view of the Force.”
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2371d
I have friends who are literally afraid of reading/watching "far right wing" publications, as if they're afraid of falling to the dark side. 😂😂😂
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Sk8eM dUb
replied 2371d
It's kind of like skiing. If you're afraid of falling you'll be rigid, fall even harder, and injure yourself.
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replied 2371d
Palpatine - “Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi.
replied 2371d
hahaha true. bit of "know your enemy"
replied 2373d
i understand if you've got personal experience (hard to beat) but if you refuse to measure the world around you won't make sense of it and will end up guided by your feelings.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
My point is that it's impossible to be objective with a wickedly complicated metric such as "crime rate". Are you familiar with p-hacking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging
replied 2372d
It is dogmatic to throw out all studies because they may have data dredging. It is prudent to carefully consider studies individually and look for any flaws in their methodology.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2372d
Furthermore, it's impossible to give proper weight to the impact of the actions of a few white collar criminals(think Ben Bernanke). e.g. How many died because of the 2008 crash?
replied 2370d
also, you might like The Great Deformation. https://www.amazon.ca/Great-Deformation-Corruption-Capitalism-America/dp/1586489127
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2369d
Dope, yeah I got a good list going for books I need to read. Is there a book recommendations topic yet?
replied 2369d
haha same. so much reading, so little time. was some interest in DPR Book Club
replied 2371d
there are efforts to estimate government control of the economy including regulation https://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/files/pdf/MLIPCrossSizeOfGovernmentPaper0514.pdf
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2372d
it's different in every area and sometimes those laws are stupid. So you're not really measuring crime rate, you're measuring *obedience rate*.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2372d
I completely agree, but the data sets for what we're talking about here depend on corrupt judicial systems reporting data accurately. Then you have to consider what's legal and illegal
replied 2372d
Example on pg 3-4. establishing individualist culture’s causal effect on economic growth https://eml.berkeley.edu/~ygorodni/gorrol_culture.pdf
replied 2372d
There are ways to statistically establish causality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_variables_estimation
replied 2372d
"patterns in data that can be presented as statistically significant, without first devising a specific hypothesis as to the underlying causality.”
replied 2372d
yes, p-hacking is an issue (esp with big data). The issue comes from fishing through all relations looking for statistically significant ones regardless of any potential causal basis.


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