It seems that it is only extreme socialism, and communism that is capable producing the scarcity that leads to real poverty, and starvation.
You are a stupid fuck that doesn't know what Socialism and Communism actually are, and keeps thinking that Capitalism is great even though it created all wars, poverty, slavery, etc.
Socialism is response to Capitalism which is needed in order to balance things out because capitalism is natively unbalanced, one sided & exploitative system (why Socialism is needed)
Imagine if miners could get rewards for work they didn't do... that is what capitalist system allows, by default. Capitalism is PoS system, Communism & Bitcoin are PoW systems.
PoW is like with Bitcoin mining, in Bitcoin miners are like workers, each owns their own hashing power (like their own energy which comes from their money), in one system (business)...
Each miner finds blocks (which is regulated by the system/code and not by some individual or group of people, the way capitalists do) proportionally to amount of work they do...
..& they proportionally get rewards in form of block reward (which is with time meant to be slowly replaced by transaction fees). in Communist business (worker coop) its same principle
Each worker should get rewarded (in form of a wage) proportionally with amount of work they have done. If someone doesn't do any work, they should get no reward (like share holders)
Workers should democratically and collectively make all decisions, like any healthy community does, and decide what to produce, how, how much each person should get paid etc.
Naturally some jobs are more demanding them others, and this should be taken into account, point being is, there is no 1 person that makes all these decisions, but all workers do.
Communism is economic system in which means of production is owned by the workers themselves, not the state (which is State Capitalism) or some individual (which is what Capitalism is)
Ed (and other commie lunatics), do you own a #business or do you work for someone? (or do are you a trust-fund baby like most famous #communist usually are)
Its communistic because in communism there is no capitalist or state to take their cut of profits. Wealth workers produce from their own work goes to the workers instead.
Communism = workers (collective) ownership of means of production. Capitalism = Private ownership of means of production. State Capitalism = State ownership of means of production
You can own your body, but your body need food and water etc to sustain itself, In this society you also need more (money to buy materialistic things), so you depend on money.
You can get money 3 ways, work for capitalist, be the capitalist or steal. Capitalism is legal form of money theft, same as private central banks having control of money is legal theft
When you work for capitalist, the capitalist owns your work, fully, you come to work, you are productive for the capitalist, and you go home, you don't own anything you produced.
The capitalist then sells the things you produced for higher price, which is subjective value for each user/consumer & worker gets small share of that value, capitalist takes the rest.
Capitalist has some cost, but he gets profits for himself, from work & energy he did not provide. Only reason workers do this is because system is setup this way & people are fooled.
People are fooled because this is what the system teaches you is normal practice even desired practice, because they claim Capitalism is Free Markets and other garbage.
The system then also feeds you all kinds of propaganda and mind trick through advertising, education system and social engineering of society to work hard etc, or try to be like them.
It means again, you are fed 2 choices, to try to join their club and become a capitalist, be part of their exploitative club and exploit others, or be exploited. But there's 3rd option
It is Communist system, where everyone needs to work and earn money from their own work only. This ensures no exploitation happens, which results in more healthy society & its values.
Capitalism is a system for people who are greedy, who lack empathy, who want to be rules, who feel they are better then the rest of us (because they feel superior), who are PSYCHOPATHS
And it is exactly these kinds of people who have used this system, and previous ones, all of which are exploitative also, to enrich themselves, then use that wealth to fuck us over.
Actual Communism is economic system in which the workers own and control (collectively, in democratic way) means of production. I have answered your other 2 questions on Yours.org
LOL, this is your argument? This is bull shit. I read your desperate explanations and I can confirm, you have no idea wtf you are talking about - #capitalism nor #communism.
How do you define communism? I am against communism. I define it as when government has total control and ownership of all property. It's disastrous for human life.
if someone doesn't do any work, they should not be getting any rewards, its that simple. Monarchs get wealth from others, capitalist do also, the state does also, feudalist also.
This is why all of these system are exploitative, because there is always a person or group of people who take wealth that is generated from work of others. They are parasitic systems.
If miner hires people to maintain his machines, its still the machines that do the work, and other people are providing him with a service for which they get paid for fully....
...unless those workers have some middle man also that will take a cut of their earnings (which is what managers do etc). The process of mining is still done by miner himself.
It also seems, you have no idea what's the point of different roles are in a business and how businesses operate. Again, this is the core reason, why idiots think communism is good.
See, if someone else does the work to produce something, which is sold at some price later, if that person doesn't get all the value they produced, it means someone took a cut.
Miner would not be using other people to mine Bitcoin, he would be using their maintenance service. His miners (machines) which come from him only, are the ones that do the mining work
How is it not exploitative if Capitalist doesn't work, pays someone to be CEO, director, manager etc & all work is done by other people, yet capitalist takes profits?
They get profits because they control decision making, decide how much to pay workers (of course always less then what worker produces otherwise there is nothing in it for them) etc
Take business with 10000 workers, in such business owner doesn't even work in it. Any share holder doesn't work in it, yet they get profits... why? This is what PoS system is based on.
Workers are paid, but wealth they produce is not paid to them fully, capitalist takes his cut, which increases with productivity (thanks for technology). How is this not exploitative?
You're talking about the current system? It's not capitalist (unless you mean it that way); it's corporatist. And yes, corporatism is extremely exploitative... because of taxation.
..things like education and health for everyone, infrastructure, etc so that these things are not privately owned so that capitalists don't profit from them, they shouldn't be private.
When you have business with multiple people working in it, and they are all collectively making decisions and share profits, that is a communist business, or worker cooperative.
In Capitalism you don't own your labor, capitalist does. Capitalist is person that owns a business in which other people work and are not equal members of the business.
Well, corporations are capitalist businesses, no one calls them capitalist businesses because no one wants to or dares calling it by real name as no one dares go against the system.
How is "capitalist" the proper name? And are you not aware of the thousands and potentially million of people who say the exact same thing you're saying? No, it's NOT no-one.
Socialism is political set of ideas (not economic as it doesn't define means of production, communism does that) which says that the progressive taxation should pay for social things..
Progressive means increases % wise with amount of profit / earning, this ensures no one get stupidly rich at expense of others, it balances massive wealth taken by the capitalist.
Socialism is political ideology because its used in politics (which governs taxation, health education, infrastructure etc) & its not direct economic system (doesn't define production)
Social things is what any liberal / progressive / democratic / modern society should have, what people fought for against oppression, poverty, exploitation etc.
Capitalism has only 1 definition, it is private ownership of means of production, it is not Free Markets or Competition as those are not rules of the system but advertised outcomes.
More peaceful? You stupid fuck, both world wars are created during capitalism by the capitalists and there were more wars in last century then at any time before. You stupid fuck.
That is very true, and I don't give a shit what you support or not, I can see you don't know real history or what is what, I can see you are very brainwashed.
You don't know shit about history or what system is based on, you are completely brainwashed by capitalist propaganda and you are defending the very fucks that crate all wars.
So you are saying that peace if achieved by Capitalist funding private military (which is what US military is) to attack others, put in their puppets? You are indeed a total fuckhead.
Who are you, Cathy Newman? Of course I didn't say that. I am saying that war use to be the way a nation would get the resources of another. Trade is the peaceful option.
What about "Trade Wars", that is a sort of war, where goods and services get bombarded by taxation and quotas left and right. Luckily goods and services can not suffer themselves.
This is true. Trade wars do have repercussions. I could instead say that wars have become less deadly. Which is amazing considering the rise in population.
Not really. I've never defined it beyond that. Capitalism is not s government structure. Capitalism is just the system that allows for free markets and private capital ownership.
By system I guess I mean government policies that allow it. It is not itself a government structure like a republic, or a dictatorship, etc. Different governments can allow capitalism.
Free markets, or at least less market intervention than non-capitalist nations. I dont think we ever see total capitalism. We just see a liberal capitalism.
SFRJ produced everything, cars, boats, ships, tanks, furniture, high civil engineering, tourism, agriculture, fashion, you name it, we had it. You have no idea what Communism is.
SFRJ was the only European nation who's people didn't need visa to travel to other nations, had great standard of living, strong military (DEFENSIVE forces), highly respected globally.
SFRJ (Jugoslavija). And if you think USSR or China are/were communist, you show you don't know what Communism is. State controlled business is not Communism it is State Capitalism.
State capitalism and communism are essentially the same thing. The ideal of communism is a lie, and the people who have lived under communism hated it.
And what is fucked up even more is that Capitalists are the ones that funded and creates Nazis in WWII, they are the ones that attacked every other nation, you fucking cunt of a man.
These are FACTS, bankers from Capitalist US & UK are the ones that funded Nazis, and Capitalists from these same fucked up nations also did business with the Nazis. You know shit.
A bank was going to fund it. It doesnt matter which it ended up being. The wars were not started by banks. Capitalism is not to blame. By the way, banks =/= capitalism.
Now, apply that definition (which is the actual correct definition of capitalism) and you should see that private banks ARE capitalist businesses also.
Capitalism is system in which means of production (business) is privately owned and in it other people work for the owner (capitalist). The capitalist is the ruler in that business.
The capitalist is not a ruler, the capitalist is a participant in the system. The capitalist only has control over what they own. That is a good system.
Capitalism is very shit system, it allows and embraces exploitation, it rewards greedy who do no work the most, it corrupted & controls all politics, even wages wars to make profits.
All systems allow exploitation. Capitalism helps that exploitation to be mutually beneficial. It rewards greed for both parties. The owners work harder than you realise.
Are you blind to the realities of owning a business? Their success often depends on the owners. The people at the top do more than you realise. It is because of them people work.
My logic is sound. The real world provides many examples of how wrong you are. I think you are using certain words interchangeably. Boss =/= owner =/= not working.
How can math make this strange idea a fact? Technically if a business is built up so successfully that the owner isn't required to work then that is because the owner deserves it.
No, not all system allow exploitation, you saying that they do is another big fat lie. Bitcoin with PoW is not such system, Communism is also based on this same PoW principle.
Sorry to say it, but you just don't get it. This is such simple logic & easy to understand but you keep on thinking your things that are brainwashed into your mind.
Bitcoin doesn't exploit work of miners at all, every miner gets paid FULLY for work they have done. Person working for capitalist gets paid much smaller fraction of the work they did.
Every capitalist is in fact a ruler of that particular business. What monarchy used to be on national/state level, capitalism is on business level. Who else owns & makes all decisions?
Are you really that stupid that you still can't get the message across? Share holders DO NO WORK, yet they get rewards. This is literally what EXPLOITATION is all about you moron.
It is hardly exploitation. A share holder invest money in the company. This gives the company more money to build the company to do more. Work is not the only source of value.
It is literally exploitation. You happen to be in Bitcoin BCH I presume, yet you just keep showing that you don't understand the idea behind PoW principle at all.
Miners are directly selling their labour. They are much like capitalist entrepreneurs in this. There is even competition. Competition makes the system healthy, as with capitalism.
Capitalists do sell their labour, but they also serve the important fu action of BUYING your labour. If you want to sell your labour you need someone to buy it. Employers are customers
These things are then sold to customers. A building is a good example. A capitalistspays for contractors. Contractors pay for labourers. A customer buys the finished building.
That is not how things work. Not many people make complete things themselves. Instead people sell their labour to a capitalist. The labour is coordinated to make finished things.
You just dont get it. Capitalist is nothing but a middleman, same as banks, as ll they really do is extract wealth created by others. There is absolutely no need to have such systems.
Actually they are important middlemen. They coordinate which labour to buy to create the finished product. Modern things dont get built without a lot of coordination.
That is not the competition I am talking about. I am talking about forced competition among people and still you ignore the fact that capitalists are exploiting honest working people.
Free market is not a rule but an outcome of a system, which is said to be an outcome of this system, but reality is it has not been the case & gave all the reasons as to why this is so
I'm not a capitalist defender. I am a moderate who understands economic systems and the importance of having a balance between the free market and a centralized government.
Really? And what does it say in your link? "The economic system in which the means of production is privately held" which is exactly what I am saying so I think I know what it is.
You are right, and it is wrong of me not to put more effort into deciding what he is saying. I should remember that in order to debate you interpret their argument at it's best form.
Yes, you can have capitalism without banks, but that doesn't mean banks are not capitalist businesses. Take definition of capitalism and apply it to banks & you will see you are wrong.
I never said they are not capitalist businesses. I said they =/= capitalism. The way you jump between capitalist businesses and capitalism in general confuses the issues.
US & UK bankers did in fact fund them. look up "trading with the enemy act", see first hand what shit your beloved capitalists are. Also private banks ARE in fact capitalist business.
Yes, banks funded wars. So what? They didn't start the wars. Whoever funded the nations involved they were going to fight. Dont you get how little it matters?
You are one of the ignorant & uneducated (of you were properly educated you would know these things) fools that is clueless about this because you are brainwashed by the capitalists.
Actually I went to a liberal university. Took some political science courses for electives. I am likely more educated than you without having finished my degree.
Communism is WORKERS owning & controlling means of production. State Capitalism is STATE owning & controlling means of production. They are clearly NOT the same thing at all.
In fact, there are already many communist type businesses, a business which is family owned and run is such business. I think Uber is such business also as it has no owner, its a Coop.
FYI communism (worker coops) existed before & still exist, you just don't know how to see it. Such system doesn't have to be used nation wide, it can be used in any particular business
Its standard part of propaganda that exists in lot of human history where terms are used for things they don't actually represent & people don't know any better so they fall for it.
There is no state owned communism, that's State Capitalism. Just because someone said its communism doesn't mean it is (same as just because BTC is called Bitcoin doesn't mean it is).
Capitalism: "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state"
Trade happens in any economic system, free trade is when no state/individual regulates trade. Capitalists do interfere in trade as they create monopolies & they corrupt the state.
Markets is place of trade, it is not place of production, Capitalism is system of production, and trade happens regardless what economic system is used.
FYI, Trade is not part of the economic system definition, this is just more propaganda created by the capitalists, when they call capitalism as free markets. This is just another lie.
Capitalism is not political system at all, it is economic system. What capitalists do however is bribe politicians in order to corrupt them, so that they defend capitalists interests.
Here is Naci Pelosi talking about capitalism, at least she admits America is capitalist (and the said that's just the way it is, there's a hint for you).
Then she slaps the label of "Shareholder Capitalism" which is one of those idiotic propaganda things that you ignorant Americans can't pick up, and end up using this idiotic label.
There is no such thing as Crony Capitalism or Shareholder Capitalism (she even got the timeline wrong, its not 20 years, its more like 50 years), there is just CAPITALISM
So just because some capitalists are humans with no empathy, pure greed and they would walk over the dead for profit, and others aren't does not change how the system itself works.
This is exactly the same as with Monarchy, system does not change depending on king being good person or not, whatsoever. But you are too stupid to understand this.
Capitalism, State Capitalism & Communism are economic systems (defined by who owns & controls means of production). Capitalism=Private, Communism=Workers, State Capitalism=State
State Capitalism is close to Fascism but is not the same. USSR was using State Capitalist system but was not Fascist. Germany was using Capitalist system and was Fascist.
In the 90s a USDA inspector perceived our company as having racist hiring practices(the 15 or so workers are migrants of the incorrect skin color). Guess what happened?
You're using Marxist Newspeak definitions of all these words. Anywhere that there's an unelected bureocracy that has a heavy "regulatory" hand in buisiness counts to me. USA included.
The deep state, which consists of top richest capitalists, are that un-elected government (hence the term deep state) they control the politics, and they are the ones directing it all.
I am using most simple truthful definitions because most people have been brainwashed a lot, some people even call bailing out banks as Socialism, which is completely wrong.
Your definitions are boring and useless because they were fashioned through the narrow and flawed ideological lenses of Hegelian and Marxist theory. They were wrong about human nature
Not at all, these theories are proven to be correct. Everything Marx said will happen, happened. It is the narrative by the capitalists that is all wrong.
There you go again talking shit, slapping some labels & misusing the very meaning of them. I use facts & reality to come to my own conclusions, noting religious about that, you fool.
You declare blind allegiance to your prophet Carl Marx. Anyone who disagrees is a fool. If that's not religious zealotry idk what is. It's not a label, it's a description.
Blind allegiance? There is another comment you people like to pull out of your ass. When you can't admit that you are proven wrong, just accuse the person of some shit like this.
You must use an "if-then" statement to prove anything. Here I'll show you: IF you use copious profanity THEN it's easy to tell that YOU are the one who is triggered.
IF you can't see that getting money for things you never worked for, which is what Capitalism is based on, THEN you are simply clueless. I'm done with you.
IF you can't understand that real definition of Capitalism is Private ownership of means of production & not free markets etc, THEN you just don't get it.
You just made an argument that was similarly cogent to - If you don't believe the moon is made of swiss cheese then you, you...you just don't GET IT!! lol, who's the idiot?
The fact that you're triggered by people disagreeing with you belies your insecurity and cognitive dissonance. If you were confident I wouldn't be threatening to you.
Facts is that I proved you wrong and you are the one who is triggered. What is threatening is fucked up Capitalist system that has been fucking up the society you ignorant stupid fuck.
The banks bail themselves out with your money. It's all just people getting away with whatever they can. Call it capitalism, I don't care. It doesn't make central planning good.
I never said that central planing is good, but even there devil is in the detail: you can't have everyone do planing, what you can have is everyone deciding if to accept plan or not.
(cont. from butt post)... all interstate buisinesses pay the FDA to track every box you ship. They're in your plant every day and are judge Judy and executioner for any activity.
The Yugo car is the impression most Westerners have of Yugoslav industry. It was considered the worst vehicle available in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_Koral