Create account

replied 2383d
TrashPosterInTheDark
you've assumed DNA cannot be created naturally. analogous to saying intelligent people made matches to make fire therefore without intelligent people there cannot be fire.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2382d
It's not about assuming anything. I will simply not claim something as a fact which I can't prove.
replied 2381d
You’re right it suggests (or even proves) that intelligently designing DNA is one option for how it was first created but does not say that intelligences MUST be the origin of DNA.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2380d
Yes, that's why I first said "suggest". My second wording has been chosen for the only sake of being provocative. My bad.
replied 2380d
Intelligent design is easily disproven by coming up with much smarter designs. Unless this creator is an idiot.
replied 2378d
interesting thought. like runners with prosthetic calves & feet can outrun able bodied runners.
replied 2377d
Even if we consider that most of the universe is empty space. If one is all powerful you could make a more efficient universe. One infinite plane would be better.
replied 2374d
why do you say an infinite plane would be better?
replied 2374d
More usable space. Better suited to life. At least better than mostly empty and unlivable space. This is assuming a godly creator who can do create the universe as anything.
replied 2374d
yeah, of course. would be really easy to just go off & do your own thing / get away from everyone else.
replied 2374d
Essentially if there was a godly creator they would be a Flat Earther if they were smarter. In the real world though Fat Earthers are wrong, and the globe disproves intelligent design.
replied 2374d
Might also be limits? Consider making our world like designing a video game. Could literally anything be designed or would there be some universal limits?
replied 2374d
I guess if we imply a limited creator. Depends on if they make the laws of physics, or if they are constrained by them.
replied 2374d
yeah, guess that's what I was getting at. like if you say you can build an infinite plane then how do you change gravity to allow that? you know?
replied 2374d
lol interesting thought! there could be benefits to designing a round earth. eg letting organisms evolve/advance in more relative isolation.
replied 2374d
Those benefits work in a universe that is hands off. A creator should have been able to come up with a better system than one that lead to most species becoming extinct.
replied 2374d
I agree there are optimizations to be made, but every optimization could break something else. (eg allow FTL, now have to deal with time travel or something)
cbeastsv
replied 2378d
Only on solid level surfaces.
replied 2374d
true, was thinking just in sporting events
replied 2381d
This does not follow>“Which also suggest an intelligible mind MUST be at the origin of the DNA code base”
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 2380d
Suggest =/= proofs.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2382d
You assume that DNA is useful without a cell and that it's durable in an aerobic environment. Analogous to saying that if there's a library full of books a reader will magically appear
replied 2382d
not necessarily, Highly Efficient Self-Replicating RNA Enzymes https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S1074-5521%2813%2900426-2
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2382d
What?? So this thing is going to build a cell around itself? All the plans in the world mean nothing if you don't have a factory to produce them in the first place.
replied 2381d
You asked for proof of heritable code that is “useful without a cell and that it's durable in an aerobic environment”. Thats what this is.
replied 2381d
For evolution you need something that can self replicate, mutate, & be under selection pressure. Self-Replicating RNA Enzymes suit those criteria.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2381d
Just look at the long string of processes the chemists had to go through to make that RNA in the lab. Even then its just white noise and gets destroyed in the presence of oxygen.
replied 2378d
We’re also looking through the lens of survivorship bias. We dont know all the organisms that didn’t work out. It is possible there are even more simple self replicating molecules.
replied 2378d
& yes everything gets degraded over time. The question is what is the balance between self replicating & degrading? People degrade but not before self replicating.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2377d
replied 2374d
wonderful animations. *yes people degrade constantly but not to the point they cannot self replicate (an assumption buried in previous mRNA enzyme posts)
Sk8eM dUb
replied 2373d
You don't get replication without that splitting machine, so that's something that has to jump out of your alphabet soup fully functional.
replied 2373d
true you dont get replication… in this organism. The RNA enzyme above can self replicate, & mutate. Minimum needed to evolve any function.
replied 2378d
Other groups work on how nucleotides & amino acids could be made in early earth conditions. side note: this was done in water in an open container at 42C so there was oxygen.